Commander X16 audio capabilities

xanthrou · Post by **xanthrou** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:48 am

So, since the YM2151 and YM3012 DAC are going to stay, with YM2151, YM3012 and VERA PSG+PCM, how would we compare the X16 audio capabilities to say like Neo Geo?

SlithyMatt · Post by **SlithyMatt** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:17 pm

The X16 has 331 Mega, which is one better than the Neo-Geo. ?

But seriously, the Neo-Geo has a YM2610, which is a very different sound chip. It only has 4 FM voices instead of 8, but it has 11 additional voices using other sound generation methods. The NG also has a Z80 with dedicated RAM for handling sound, so in most cases you'd have to give it up to that old Arcade standard (or home console for the absurdly wealthy).

desertfish · Post by **desertfish** » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:51 pm

331 mega Pro gear Spec ?

xanthrou · Post by **xanthrou** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:25 am

8 hours ago, SlithyMatt said:

The X16 has 331 Mega, which is one better than the Neo-Geo. ?

But seriously, the Neo-Geo has a YM2610, which is a very different sound chip. It only has 4 FM voices instead of 8, but it has 11 additional voices using other sound generation methods. The NG also has a Z80 with dedicated RAM for handling sound, so in most cases you'd have to give it up to that old Arcade standard (or home console for the absurdly wealthy).

Let's mention that there are 3 SSG square wave channels, 1 noise generator channel and 7 ADPCM ones in YM2610.

The VERA PSG+PCM, based loosely on SID, has 16 channels of noise, triangle, pulse (not just square, since it has multiple duty cycles) or sawtooth (and ability to be used as PCM), depending on how you use it, plus you can dynamically change the sound waves quickly, much like SID, which is much more channels than SSG, noise and ADPCM combined.

Neo-Geo has 15 channels, X16 has overwhelmingly 26 channels, an absurdly large number of sound channels for an 8-bit home computer.

By the way, what is 331 Mega?

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:10 pm

5 hours ago, xanthrou said:

By the way, what is 331 Mega?

330 Mega + 1 = 331 Mega. Hence, "But seriously, ..."

desertfish · Post by **desertfish** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:44 pm

According to wikipedia: [Neo Geo (system)] "The original specification for ROM size is up to 330 megabits, hence the system displaying "Max 330 Mega Pro-Gear Spec" upon startup."

xanthrou · Post by **xanthrou** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:32 pm

21 hours ago, SlithyMatt said:

Neo-Geo has a YM2610, which is a very different sound chip. It only has 4 FM voices instead of 8, but it has 11 additional voices using other sound generation methods.

Mind you that these 11 channels are 3 square wave channels, a noise generator channel and 7 ADPCM channels. (one is around 65 kHz, other six are circa 18kHz).

In VERA however, we have PSG and PCM. But not only that, they are 16 channels, more than the 11 ones. And since it's based loosely on SID, you can use pulse (with variable duty cycles), triangle, sawtooth and noise channels and like SID, you can dynamically change the waves, giving an illusion of more than actual channels.

Neo-Geo may have 15 channels, but X16 has 26, an overwhelming number of sound channels for an ordinary 8-bit home computer for general use.

SlithyMatt · Post by **SlithyMatt** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:59 pm

As was mentioned on another thread, while the X16 has a lot of options, the ability to use them all is a bit hampered due to memory and speed constraints. If the X16 had a Z80 and dedicated sound memory like the NG to manage all of this stuff, it would definitely win, hands down. The simplicity of having a single chip do all the sound and effectively a second computer to run it makes the NG take the edge, in my opinion. Better direct comparisons are to the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive or the Super NES/FamiCom

xanthrou · Post by **xanthrou** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:04 am

11 hours ago, SlithyMatt said:

As was mentioned on another thread, while the X16 has a lot of options, the ability to use them all is a bit hampered due to memory and speed constraints. If the X16 had a Z80 and dedicated sound memory like the NG to manage all of this stuff, it would definitely win, hands down. The simplicity of having a single chip do all the sound and effectively a second computer to run it makes the NG take the edge, in my opinion. Better direct comparisons are to the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive or the Super NES/FamiCom

That's entirely true and I am not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just pointing out what the X16 offers, where you won't find in Neo-Geo.

Just to let you know that X16 sound can be tough as well, not like your average Commodore machines.

For some, with the 26 channels and 128 kilobytes of VRAM and 256 color modes, some people would call X16 'the Neo-Geo of 8-bit home computers'.

We can do that with the magic of expansion cards, but I doubt it would be supported by a lot of programs.

SlithyMatt · Post by **SlithyMatt** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:30 pm

A lot of folks have proposed concepts for co-processor expansion cards, but I agree, it's unlikely anything will get widespread support like the AdLib and SoundBlaster standards did for PCs.

I like the idea of:

8 hours ago, xanthrou said:

the Neo-Geo of 8-bit home computers

but maybe add "at a fraction of the cost". The NG home console retailed at $650 in 1990, which would be the equivalent of $1287 today.