Commander X16

So, in The 8-Bit Guy's latest video on the Mini PET, he mentions his apprehension about releasing a solder-it-yourself kit version of the X16p because of how difficult it can be to solder something as complicated a computer. My heart sank a little when I heard that.

Of course, he's right - it is challenging.  I've done a number of solder projects now and problems have always come up!  But that's part of the fun and challenge of this particular subset of the hobby.  And even though there have always been problems, it's also the case that anything I've ever soldered I've eventually gotten working in the end.  Most recently I put together one of those Putnam Electronics PE6502 kits and of course it didn't work at first, but troubleshooting it was part of the fun.  The troubleshooting took an entire extra day, but it was so satisfying when it finally turned on.

I know from other comments (I think on this forum?) that David is concerned about not being able to offer "customer service", i.e. troubleshooting help to those people who are brave enough to try to solder together their own X16p.  Again, he's right - support is a valid concern.  All I can say in response to that is, I would hope that anyone brave enough to want to try the kit would be understanding of the risks.  A big, noticeable disclaimer before placing an order for a kit version should help stave away any potential buyers who were only trying to save money (if the kit is even any cheaper).  "Not suitable for a first-time solder project" would be a good start, or even just "not suitable for beginners."  And make it clear that no help can be provided or should be expected from the official team. 

I'll still be buying an X16 even if there's no kit version (though, probably the 'c' instead of 'p').  I'm still excited about the X16 as a platform.  I even totally understand his reasons for being wary of releasing a kit.  But after the most recent video, if David is leaning toward not releasing one, I'm hoping this thread will politely nudge him in the other direction. Soldering stuff together is fun and challenging and I'm hoping I'm not the only one looking forward to undertaking that challenge with the X16.

One way to filter out some of those who shouldn't be buying the kit is to increase the kit purchase price ... and one good way to do that is to include a x16e with the kit, "to verify correct performance".

If the Kickstarter is organized as a x16p and x16c wave, and then if successful a following x16e wave, that also postpones the kit version until the second wave.

I also think that an X16 kit would be great - I'd buy one for sure. But I can also see why the team is hesitant about it. Let's face it - there's no way that there won't be at least a handful of idiots that think "not for beginners, eh? come on, how hard can it be?", then f*ck it up and blame the team for it. This will of course cost resources (and nerves), and so I understand that the kit option is something that they don't want to decide on right now.

Many projects fail because they get side-tracked and change their plan and/or goals too often along the way, so they never finish in the end. (I've backed more than one of those on Kickstarter.)

But I have the impression that the X16 team does a pretty good job at avoiding this, and postponing the decision about a kit version is certainly an aspect of that.

TL;DR: If kits will be available, I'll want one, but it's a good thing not to rush the decision.

I'm 99% sure we will release the first wave with a kit option. Worst case it will have a clear message at the point of purchase that we are not responsible for any issues/damage during assembly. There will be plentiful community support available to everyone (as I said in another thread about this same topic recently), and you can bet team-members will also jump in and out to offer help and guidance.

David's main concern is that he not have to offer direct support via email. All support will be via the Support button at this very website.

 

I fully expect I'll be purchasing a pre-assembled X16. But as one of those folks who are more on the novice end of soldering, I'm not sure if I'll buy a kit:

1. 
   I fully expect to bollocks something up.
   


2. 
   I may never even realize my error, as it would be the largest kit I'd ever attempted and I might not finish it. ?
   

That said, I'm still somewhat interested in trying, and I'd like to learn more about troubleshooting problems when I do make mistakes.

I think as more we get tracktion in this forum (and we are getting more and more people on it every day) the more we will get people to help. You could also restrict help request to a specific section of the forum, where you state right at the beginning that there is no support from the main development team in the soldering and that any question and help will come from the community to set expectation right. And yes a disclaimer on the project site as well as on the kit itself "IN BIG RED LETTERS" will help to understand that it is not for the faint hearted.

9 hours ago, StephenHorn said:

I fully expect I'll be purchasing a pre-assembled X16.

Same. My soldering skills are much less proficient than my programming skills. I would much rather spend extra buying a pre-assembled X16 with the option of buying expansion boards should the soldering bug ever bite.

4 hours ago, AndyB said:

Same. My soldering skills are much less proficient than my programming skills. I would much rather spend extra buying a pre-assembled X16 with the option of buying expansion boards should the soldering bug ever bite.

The economics of modern finished board assembly versus parts logistics for a kit means that there isn't any clear reason for any "spend extra" involved in the assembled board ... because there isn't any cost reason for the kit to be noticeably cheaper. In effect, the reduction in packaging overheads in keeping all of the fiddly little parts organized by soldering them onto the board offsets the cost of the professional board assembly.

Buying the kits has to be due to love of the challenge of soldering, not in hopes of getting cheaper gear.

Agreed .. I would be one of those guys. When will you have the chance to build a whole computer on your own? Love it. But I can understand all the concerns. They are valid and it is a huge soldering project.

6 hours ago, BruceMcF said:

Buying the kits has to be due to love of the challenge of soldering, not in hopes of getting cheaper gear.

For me, that's exactly it - I enjoy putting them together, and having a working, finished product. Some kits are easier to assemble than others; I'm at the point where a through-hole kit I can do.  But with the beginning of essential tremors, SMD is a no-go. Looking at the X16 prototype boards that have been shown, this looks to be an easier assembly job than a number of projects I've tackled. It's definitely not trivial, though.