Shipping Cost and toll fees.

Karl Hultland · Post by **Karl Hultland** » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:03 pm

I got some unexpected money and was considering to buy one of the CX16 WASD keyboards. The $200 price is a bit steep but I can manage that. The main problem though is that I have to add $50 in taxes/toll and almost $70 in shipping bringing the total up to $320.

I might still order it but will have to think it over before committing especially as this has made me thinking that the CX16 itself will be almost unobtainable outside of the US unless they will get a EU warehouse for us living in Europe. ? I mean what use is the keyboard if I can't afford the rest of the computer. ?

Fenner Machine · Post by **Fenner Machine** » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:30 pm

Similar dilemma for me.

I’m checking if the UPS delivery from WASD includes taxes & duty etc. as it looks like it might.

If not, then the cost of the WASD keyboard and the CX16 combined might be too much.

If it does include everything, then it will be about £211.00 for the WASD keyboard.

I think that would be reasonable.

Karl Hultland · Post by **Karl Hultland** » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:41 pm

7 minutes ago, Fenner Machine said:

Similar dilemma for me.

I’m checking if the UPS delivery from WASD includes taxes & duty etc. as it looks like it might.

If not, then the cost of the WASD keyboard and the CX16 combined might be too much.

If it does include everything, then it will be about £211.00 for the WASD keyboard.

I think that would be reasonable.

Yeah, it is more reasonable, the computer itself I still hope will get a "warehouse" option inside the EU.

Fenner Machine · Post by **Fenner Machine** » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:55 pm

I think I just answered the question I asked WASD.

The UPS delivery cost can’t include all taxes etc. Adding an extra item only increases the delivery cost a tiny amount, no where near enough for import duty and VAT, unless the checkout screen is wrong.

That would make the WASD keyboard with green switches almost £260.00 if I’ve done my calculation correctly.

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:48 am

Yeah, US prices are pre-consumption-tax ("sales tax" in the US rather than VAT or GST, which can not only vary by state but can also vary by county or city), so short of a friend visiting the US able to bring something in under their duty limit, there's no legal getting around bumping up the price by your country's VAT rate.

But having a reseller in the EU could well get shipping costs down dramatically. While it seems unlikely that the unit will be selling at a margin to allow a reseller to get THEIR operating margin from the difference between a wholesale and retail price, there IS a saving in handling costs in shipping off a batch order, so maybe there can be a modest discount to an EU reseller buying a batch, to reduce the difference between US retail price and EU retail price.

The UK is even trickier, because they require foreign sellers to collect UK customs and other taxes FOR the UK, and there is a charge for registering to be a UK tax collector on top of that, making it uneconomic for many small volume producers to sell into the UK. The best chance for a UK resident wanting to get their hands on some retro gear from the US might be a quick trip to Belfast, which is inside the EU customs union.

Perifractic · Post by **Perifractic** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:50 am

I realize this may not come as good news but we have no plans to employ a warehouse outside of the USA. To do so would add to the unit price of every item sold outside the USA, which to some extent would come close to import duties that you would pay anyway.

This really started out as a hobby for David and keeping everything simple is the key to actually launching the product. If we add variables on top of variables, complexities, and the inevitable problems of warehouse staff not doing their jobs properly or other problems we have to go in and fix, and it just becomes futile.

We are also conscious that David in his very first video stated he wanted the computer to sell for absolute bottom dollar. If the retail price outside the USA has an inflated unit price due to incorporated warehouse and distributor cuts, we will likely get kickback and bad press from the community saying it is “too expensive” or we are penalizing people overseas by charging them more compared to Americans.

We are happy to offer international shipping options but at the moment it is expected that everything will ship directly from the USA only, as with many other products. Sorry if that is bad news but thank you for understanding the need to keep this project simple, straightforward, and at the lowest possible selling price.

Perifractic, X16 Visual Designer
http://youtube.com/perifractic

Cyber · Post by **Cyber** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:01 am

In my country there is a postal service which delivers items from USA through their own USA address. Delivery time might be longer, but significantly cheaper. There might be similar services in other countries.

Fenner Machine · Post by **Fenner Machine** » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:15 pm

I don’t mind paying the VAT and duty etc. (taxes fund essential services).

I’m just trying to justify the total cost to myself.

I suppose a WASD keyboard plus a Commander X16 including all fees would still be cheaper than most currently available graphics cards.

As international shipping options will be available, could there be an option to add a WASD X16 keyboard to reduce total shipping cost? Understandable if it’s a no.

Also, just thought about warranties. Would they apply outside the USA?

Or is it best to wait and see?

Perifractic · Post by **Perifractic** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:08 am

I don’t mind paying the VAT and duty etc. (taxes fund essential services).
I’m just trying to justify the total cost to myself.
I suppose a WASD keyboard plus a Commander X16 including all fees would still be cheaper than most currently available graphics cards.
As international shipping options will be available, could there be an option to add a WASD X16 keyboard to reduce total shipping cost? Understandable if it’s a no.
Also, just thought about warranties. Would they apply outside the USA?
Or is it best to wait and see?

As the WASD isn’t made or shipped by us it would be tricky to include it as someone would need to pay for them to be shipped to us first. What I have done is implemented an option selector on the crowdfunding where you can opt to remove the mini keyboard for a small discount, if you already bought the deluxe. You will see this when the crowdfunding goes live a little later this year.

The only warranty that will be offered is what is required by local ordinances, because this is a hobbyist device and where there is tinkering there is unfortunately sometimes user damage. So as far as I know the only warranties we will offer are those required by US law for hobbyist devices.

Perifractic, X16 Visual Designer
http://youtube.com/perifractic

EMwhite · Post by **EMwhite** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:47 pm

I've dealt with modular analog synth makers in Germany, Portugal, and the UK for many years and if you want 'it' that bad, you have to pay the piper (shippers, settling Vat issues and tariffs not to mention PayPal and currency conversion costs). Every party along the way uplifts and often you spend +25% or more just to acquire a product.

BUT, somebody will probably unofficially work out a way to ship a partial/kit board as a favor without the fancy case, etc. I wouldn't call it a deliberate attempt to skirt tax authorities, just a friend helping out a friend on a one or two-off basis. AT cases can be had locally for cheap, then on the next business trip to London (as an example), drag it onto the plane as a fancy piece of futuristic carry-on luggage (it will have detachable wheels and a strap?)