Commander X16 vs. Mega 65

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:35 am

MEGA 65 ordering has opened about 20 minutes ago. It seems there are still pre-order spots available for a late December estimated delivery. https://shop.trenz-electronic.de/en/Products/MEGA65/ $778.53 US plus shipping. Probably going to go fast.

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:43 am

Note that when I got there, it said 0 available, but that's because it is a pre-order for December. I pushed through and ordered and arranged payment and got a receipt from them with an order number.

paulscottrobson · Post by **paulscottrobson** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:57 am

On 9/22/2021 at 10:18 AM, paulscottrobson said:

Yup, the price will be interesting. The devkit version was basically $1k. I'd guess $799 or $899 myself ? Wouldn't surprise me if it was more than the devkit.

$793.33 ... should've put a bet on.

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:16 pm

On 9/30/2021 at 2:57 AM, paulscottrobson said:

$793.33 ... should've put a bet on.

Well, definitely not more than the dev kit. I've not done an in depth comparison yet ... maybe later. I decided to pull the trigger on it because of the capabilities of the components built into the MEGA65. It'll be nice to have something like the C=65. It'll be even nicer to have a whole computer that can take on multiple personalities like Amiga, Atari ST, and whatever I can dream up.

I've read a number of comments from people comparing this unfavorably to the MiSTer. A MiSTer complete with the three boards, RAM, and a case can be "easily" acquired for $455. My final price for MEGA65 with shipping etc is $847.02. I think the "02" is a nice touch for this computer, but I digress.

So what do I get for my extra $400? I get a mechanical keyboard (which can easily go for $100 to $200 depending on the source; I spent more for each of two mechanical keyboards I bought for home and work). I get a floppy drive (for what that's worth). I get a 3 FPGA system, where the primary FPGA seems to be significantly more powerful than the part in the DE10 Nano. And I get to run a system that doesn't require a Linux front end to provide infrastructure. Not that I'm anti-Linux.

I think the price difference is easily justified *IF* you want what the system has to offer. I get that it isn't for everyone. For the sorts of things I'd like to be able to do with it, it is far more than the sum of its parts.

Would I have spent this kind of money for something that only tried to deliver on the C=65 "heritage"? No way. But to have all the ports, the keyboard, the huge FPGA ... I plan to put them all to good use as I learn more about HDL and FPGA.

Plus, I can use my 1581 that I still have with it! ?

paulscottrobson · Post by **paulscottrobson** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:20 pm

Your choice. Bit puzzled by the "3 FPGA" thing as the development system was a Nexys A7 and I think still is.

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:33 pm

On 9/30/2021 at 2:16 PM, Scott Robison said:

Plus, I can use my 1581 that I still have with it! ?

You still have your 1581? So jealous.

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:31 pm

On 9/30/2021 at 2:33 PM, BruceMcF said:

You still have your 1581? So jealous.

Yeah. I lost a bunch of stuff in a move, including my C=128DCR. But I still have my 1581 and my C=16. ?

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:51 pm

On 9/30/2021 at 1:20 PM, paulscottrobson said:

Your choice. Bit puzzled by the "3 FPGA" thing as the development system was a Nexys A7 and I think still is.

The primary FPGA is a larger version of what is on the Nexys A7 / Nexys 4 DDR / Nexys 4 that they used for development. Apparently the keyboard has a CPLD that is being referred to as an FPGA because it is similarly reprogrammable. There is also a third FPGA that I think is part of the hardware management. So the workhorse is the primary one and the others provide support services to it much as other chips provide support to a CPU.

I'm not 100% up to speed on everything about MEGA65. What I listed above are just my rationalization as to why I'm getting it. Having a system with an integrated keyboard and more connectivity to the outside world is appealing for what I would like to do with it above and beyond its MEGA65 personality.

Tatwi · Post by **Tatwi** » Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:35 am

€666.66 = $917.49 CAD .... $776.93 USD = $986.39 CAD

I know it's not quite as bad here as it is in Australia, but these prices after currency conversion (even before shipping + duty + taxes) push the cost of these products way beyond the percent of annual income that the designers of the products intend. The bottom 92% of Canadians earn around same wages as the bottom 92% of Americans (more or less depending on states/provinces), yet everything costs more here and costs waaaay more if we buy from anywhere other than Australia. I've read that's even cheaper for people to drive into the USA and buy their prescriptions medications (that are imported to the USA from Canada), because there's a huge markup on the exact same thing here... I digress...

Value for the dollar wise, at the somewhere around the $1200 CAD that the Mega65 would cost, I could buy a gaming laptop from MSI, Asus, or Acer that comes with an RTX3050 GPU, a 6C/12T Intel CPU, a 1080 IPS display, and a backlit keyboard. Or I could buy a $750 gaming laptop with a GTX1650 GPU, a 6C/6T Intel CPU, a 1080 IPS display, a backlit keyboard, and any $60-100 mechanical keyboard and have ~$200 left over.

Obviously these two types of computers are not the same, but when you consider that the modern laptop can do everything the Mega65 can do, plus thousands of other things that are genuinely useful in one's modern life (such as being one's only computer), it just doesn't make any sense for an average person to spend so much money on a Mega65. Sure it's a neat toy, but... it's kinda not really. Functionally, it doesn't do anything that you can't already do with any PC from the last 20 years. Sure it looks neat, but does it really look 4% of my annual income neat? Not to me, even if I used it every day, which I totally wouldn't (I'd sure use that gaming laptop every day though!).

So, would I buy it for $666.66 CAD? That's $60 more than an XBox Series X and $220 more than a Nintendo Switch, both of which I think would be more useful and more regularly used, as everyone in our house would ~~use~~ fight over the console, yet only I would use the Mega65. While you can't put a price on happiness, you... can put a price on happiness and I think in the case of a retro computer that I would use sometimes, but probably not always, I think that price is somewhere around $200 CAD. Any more and I'd rather just not spend more money and keep on enjoying all the stuff I already have. It's not like I have a shortage of "old junk" to play with.

Grats to them for finishing it though. It does look great and I would absolutely make some space for one if it were in my price range.

Crazy old man out!

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:14 am

I intend to use it as a better FPGA development platform than the Nexys 4 DDR I already have. But I cannot fault you for your logic and reasoning.