Commander X16

While I'd personally be fine with only having access to a phase 2 or phase 3 product, I'd gladly buy a phase 1 kit on day one to help support the project - just name a price and create an order page and I'll sign right up.  Having an official case is nice and all, but I think that getting the actual hardware out, especially to the people who've been invested early on in terms of software development, is more important - accessories like a case can come along later if demand and budget permit. 

Also, the X8 sounds like an interesting product, but releasing it now would effectively dilute the 'Commander' brand - the X16 has been the primary product the community has been built around, and so releasing something else, even if it's kinda-sorta compatible with the X16, doesn't feel like the right thing to do at the moment.

As for phase 2 versus phase 3, I personally think that skipping phase 2 and going straight to 3 would be fine.  Most people are going to either be early adopters (who will want phase 1 kits or pre-builts anyway), or people looking for a lower cost option (who would be happy with phase 3 systems), so having a phase 2 which doesn't fully meet the need of either group becomes less important.  As long as you keep phase 1 kits available for people who like tinkering and building their own, I think going straight to phase 3 would be best.

 

One of the selling point for me was to have a single architecture frozen in time and available forever. The cx8 would basically be a different incompatibile system thus creating a second one, with a different software library etc. It would diluite the software effort. So i'm for NO. It would be a nice platform on its own but not as a second one. 

For the rest, i understand the problems and i'm in for the cheapest option, probably phase 3 (i wouldn't have space for a full case too). 

Keep strong ?

Although, business-wise it's probably smarter to skip phase2. I think the majority of X16 would-be adopters are not here, and not as hardcore as we are, so sampling the forums is not necessarily the most accurate reflection of the general public's view.

I would look at the Commander X8 and the Commander X16 like the Vic 20 and the Commodore 64. I like the idea of both. I am not opposed to kit versions and would more likely consider one as I understand the time and cost associated with populating the board. 

I think I like the two different products for different reasons - the X8 is ready to go, has USB, and as you mention the sound capabilities are more than enough. I liked the dual sound chips in the X16 as I was always interested in music production with it.

Now I do wonder if it is a possibility to release a case design so that if people were to choose to they could 3D print or make one of their own, or find an off the shelf case that works and slap fancy sticker on it. I think the lack of case is a bummer but not a deal breaker, especially if it gets the computer in people's hands today. And while it may not be much it may be able to infuse some cash into the continuation of the project.

I don't think the X8 dilutes the brand. I personally think it builds on it. I am unfamiliar with the feasibility of it but in the end would it be possible to make the X8 compatible with the X16 end product?

Been following this for a good while with great interest.. It looked like I wouldn't have been able to afford it myself and my soldering skills are rather crap. As a backer of the Spectrum Next Kickstarter 2, I understand about the chip shortages and inflated prices. 

As for the power supply, it's surprising that there were problems with them. Makes you wonder about the lack of quality control where they're made.

Price permitting, I'd love to get the X8.. I've got a USB keyboard at hand which would really suit it and if needed, I can 3D print a case. 

As for finances, have you considered doing crowdfunding to help? 

12 minutes ago, zeropolis79 said:

As for finances, have you considered doing crowdfunding to help? 

Given that filling the orders for Planet X2 really stressed Dave a lot, I doubt he wants to go that route again.

First, a big thanks to all who is involed in this project. ??????

I followed this project from the beginning.

As David explained his idea of a simple based 'VIC20' with bank switching, I was excited.

I like the idea of a 65C02 @ 8 MHz with a standard RAM and ROM + 2 MB of bank switching.

+ VGA/Sound/(SD Card), PS/2, serial bus (Commodore bus) and have my own cards in the expansion port(s).

- The size of the board (ATX) is imo too large. For Phase 1 it's okay.

- And I would prefer an additional 2MB RAM card than a 2MB onboard RAM.



I don't need the YAMAHA sound chip(s) and neither I need the (S)NES ports so long as I have a connection to a user port or so.

Now to the kit:

Kit 1: Motherboard

Kit 2: Motherboard + all the passive components.

Kit 3: Only the active components (CPU, RAM, etc.)

About the X8, I think it would effectively split the community, so I'm quite against it even if honestly it's still appealing to me... Anyway if you ever release it please do some magic bytes in ROM so we can write software that'll detect which Commander is executing it. (like for the emulator)

An idea would be doing some preorders of the X16 and that's the only way to get an X8 (that'll be shipped first).

Anyway, tell me a price and i'll surely buy it day one ?

I think it's great that David so openly shared this information with the community. We could feel that there were hurdles, but it's better to have first hand information.

If money is no object, I'm personally most interested in the phase 1, whether in kit form or pre-assembled.

Converting assembly programs from X16 to X8 may very well prove to be a hassle. The differences, as described, seem to be quite substantial: no banked RAM, less VRAM and different access logic to VERA. It feels like X16 and X8 are no more related than cousins, like VIC20 and C64 for instance. A X16 program could be ported to X8 but would take some effort and the result would in many cases be restricted in some ways. Attracting developers and building a sufficient software library might be the most demanding aspect of successfully launching a new computer platform. Therefore you need to think carefully before dividing the developer efforts between two platforms.

I have to say that the project needs to find a route that is as cost effective as possible or you guys will never recoup your investments.

Go all DIY on the phase-1, if the board fits a micro atx as planned getting a case won't be a problem. Get it out - Make it simple.

Then go to phase 2 and get everything in the wedge computer shape you want all along for the mass. 

x8 sound like a bad idea, acorn electron vs bbc micro and commodore 16 vs plus 4 is two good examples why. 

I'd gladly buy a diy phase 1 and put it in a case of my choosing since well. that's what I have wanted all along.