Change of product direction, good and bad news!

[kliepatsch]

11 hours ago, Ethan72021 said:

Is there a chance we could see a 3D model of the case so we could 3D print our own?

Have a look at this thread:


Essentially, due to legal issues it is unlikely that the case design will be released to the public, sadly.

Edit: "Legal issues" is perhaps too strong ... See following posts

[Brad]

17 minutes ago, kliepatsch said:

Essentially, due to legal issues it is unlikely that the case design will be released to the public, sadly.

This just gets better and better...

[Scott Robison]

Just now, Brad said:

This just gets better and better...

To be clear lest that be misunderstood: The "legal issues" are simply "a third party, not one of the X16 principals, did design work in anticipation of a future payday, and is unlikely to voluntarily give up their design because their time is valuable".

[Perifractic]

4 hours ago, Scott Robison said:

To be clear lest that be misunderstood: The "legal issues" are simply "a third party, not one of the X16 principals, did design work in anticipation of a future payday, and is unlikely to voluntarily give up their design because their time is valuable".

That isn’t quite right. It’s actually pretty simple:

The X16 case design used an existing design as a basis to cut end user costs (as stated in the other thread and since the start).

I then designed changes to that to customise it.

We therefore cannot give out the full 3D files because we do not own 100% of them (we don’t own the basis / the original design).

Analogy: Imagine you wrote a song, and someone else added a new verse and chorus, then they gave your song away for free.

It also isn’t “legal issues”, just standard copyright law. 

More clarity is in the other thread as I don’t want to detract from David’s goal of this thread. 

[Scott Robison]

3 minutes ago, Perifractic said:

I’m going to step in and clarify that isn’t quite right. It’s actually pretty simple:



The X16 case design used as a basis an existing case (as stated in the other thread and since the start).



I then designed changes to that to customise it.



We cannot give out the full 3D files because we do not own 100% of them.



Analogy: Imagine you wrote a song, and someone else added a new verse and chorus, then gave your song away for free.



It also isn’t “legal issues”, just standard copyright law. 



More clarity is in the other thread as I don’t want to detract from David’s goal of this thread. 

Right ... I'm saying "the other company owns the design, where design is more than just the skin on the outside". I feared a quick reading of the summary, without going to the other post, would lead someone to think "Perifractic and 8BG are in a legal battle" and I thought clarifying that was of value. I don't think I was "wrong" per se, but certainly this is "more accurate".

[troj]

For those advocating crowdfunding, remember that it creates with it a new set of time-consuming issues that have to be addressed, as well as other stress. This is a part-time, side project for the team, and adding obligation and stress from a crowdfunding campaign could easily push them over the edge.

For me, personally, I want the kit form, most of all. I enjoy assembly such things, and it takes me back to my younger days.  I don't care as much about a polished assembly with a board, a pretty case, etc - I'd rather assemble the board, and if I then need to source my own case for it, so be it. That's no different than all the computers I've built over the past 25 years or so.

My guess, if the team were to release the X8 prior to the X16 is that it would become a distraction and the X16 itself would be less likely to ever be realized. To me, it comes down to David thinking in terms of his vision from when he kicked this project off - if the X8 meets that vision and he'd be okay if it stopped there, then consider releasing the X8. But if the X8 would leave David feeling disappointment for not having achieved his vision, then I would avoid that distraction and continue on with the X16.

As far as component issues go, that's a real problem that's impacting a lot of projects and supply chains. I have a couple friends who produce niche electronic products and they need to have another production run done - they spent over a week sourcing parts that were compatible with items that they just couldn't find. They had to make some compromises that they'll have to address on the software side of their product, in order to be able to meet customer demand. Those backlogs and demands for components are not expected to get better until late 2022 or possibly into 2023.

[The 8-Bit Guy]

3 hours ago, michele75 said:

Could the X8 be bundled with PETSCII ROBOTS?

Absolutely.  I had already planned to bundle Petscii Robots with the X16.  And it can certainly run on the X8 as well.

[Scott Robison]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I find humor in the idea of bundling the X8 with PETSCII ROBOTS. Used to be you got software bundled with your hardware. Then some of 8BG's software comes with hardware to support alternative controllers. Now we're going to ship an entire freakin computer to you with the software just so you can play it! ?

[Carl Gundel]

Crowdfunding would pose certain challenges?  Okay.  But if the project is impeded from lack of money (is it?) and if crowdfunding can provide that money...?

As for the case, aren't phase 1 and 2 both designed to fit in a standard case?  Problem solved?

The X8 to me just isn't the same thing that David described from the get go.  It doesn't even have the same vibe to me at all.

My three cents. ?

[The 8-Bit Guy]

I just wanted to chime in about the costs and confusion on the X8.   First and foremost, it is really hard to narrow down a cost structure with the crazy chip market at the moment.  Hopefully that is a temporary problem.  So let me tell you where we would be if the chip market were the same as two years ago.

The X8 could be available immediately and be well under $50.  I'm not sure how far under $50.  I'd say as low as $25 and as high as $50.  

The Phase 1 system sold as a DYI kit could be well under $300. Maybe under $250.  Add another $100 to $150 for a pre-assembled kit.

Again, you can't hold me to these numbers because so many things are unknown right now with the cost of chips.  But that hopefully puts things in a ballpark for people trying to figure this out.  

For those trying to figure out what the advantage would be of an X8 versus what is envisioned for the X16 Phase-3 (known as the X16e).  Well, the X8 would still be half the price.   For example, the X8 might be $35 and the X16e would be like $70.   There is simply no way to ever produce an FPGA based X16 as cheaply as the X8 can be produced.   And the X8 brings with it most of the functionality and personality of the X16.  And it's not an emulator.  So, there's that.

And there's another more depressing matter to consider. If the X16 doesn't sell well enough to recoup some of the costs we've plunged into it, the X16e will never see the light of day.  Where as the X8 could start sales very quickly and actually help fund the entire project.  So there's that too.