Change of product direction, good and bad news!

Sir Eisenhower · Post by **Sir Eisenhower** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:39 am

I'll take a Phase 1 DIY kit right now... just tell me where to insert the quarters. I don't care about the case... I'll make my own.

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:50 am

51 minutes ago, Chandler Klüser said:

For some people who lives in other countries like me (Brazil), buying a fully assembled PC can bring a lot of taxes (over the whole price of the product), bringing a product whose price is lower and the size smaller could help us a lot. On the other hand, was a fully FPGA PC really the goal of the project? Why not porting the emulator to arm SBCs, then?

Regardless of the project rules about whether or not that can be discussed in these forums, there is the ultimate problem of using licensed ROMs from Cloanto. I don't know if the current ROMs are being included in the emulator and everyone is looking the other way because there isn't any money in it yet, but an emulator for ARM SBCs would be much more of a competitor to a phase 3 style product. Though they are still very different products. The X8 or X16 phase 3 is an FPGA and that is very different from an emulator on a foreign platform.

TomXP411 · Post by **TomXP411** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:53 am

This may sound weird, but I find the X8 more interesting than the X16, at this point.

The compact form factor, FPGA design, and USB connectivity all mean that it actually fits what many people want to do better than the X16. All the people complaining about PS/2 keyboards and mice... there's the X8. The only downside I can see to the X8 (aside from the 64K RAM limit) is the lack of I/O for serial devices, so no using this as a BBS terminal or terminal for my Altair.

Regardless, I'd love to see the X8, and if the price is right, I'd buy an X8 and an X16 - the X8 for BASIC hacking and assembly language development, and the X16 because of course I want one. And the X8 being available right now may give you an infusion of cash that you can put toward finishing the X16 project.

Themikeeffect · Post by **Themikeeffect** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:54 am

Ive been a fan even though I am from the philippines.

for me, release the x8 for you to gain capital until the release x16.

i am a fan of DIY like RasperryPi. But may if I might suggest, if possible,

1. Just have the board less to have you solder things. Btw, i am okay as well not to have a case.

2. Use regular keyboard. Have a programmable code to swap or change mapping of the keys or have like an adapter or something.

Thanks!

Orthrus · Post by **Orthrus** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:57 am

I must admit the only product I ever actually wanted was the phase 1 product and would be ok if phase 2 and 3 were never released. The DIP dev board would be a dream come true and opens a world of possibilities. The idea of a market for expansions cards and other products is incredibly exciting. I was also never interested in the case, however, the keyboards are nice. I don't see the value in the x8 and would recommend sticking to the x16 line for now to build one consistent ecosystem and then diversify later as you learn more on where the ecosystem goes.

I can't wait to buy one! Great work guys despite the challenges. Thanks!

Jestin · Post by **Jestin** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:03 am

For me, the Commander X16 has always been about education. You can look at it and see how it works. The parts are not abstract concepts implemented inside an FPGA. They are physical chips with datasheets connected by higher level block and circuit diagrams.

I want the Commander X16 to be my 6 year old daughter's first computer. I've never given her a tablet or a video game console. I want her to understand what a computer is. I want her to see a computer with all its parts exposed.

A kit will give her this. An FPGA will not.

Scott Robison · Post by **Scott Robison** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:05 am

I look at the poll and I have a hard time answering. So much of it to me depends on "what are the price points"? You may have no way to even say at this time.

What is the price for the kit? I don't mind trying to assemble my own, though it isn't something I have a ton of experience with. Given that the board has already been designed to go in an available case form factor, I can source my own case. The fact that there are so many different cases to put a Raspberry Pi in certainly hasn't hurt its adoption (though a completely different market).

What is the price for the preassembled machine? I'm not adverse to buying one of each so I can have both experiences.

If the price for either is $1, then sold! If the price for either is $10,000, I can't afford it. Answering the question either way feels misleading to David and the team without having some estimate, because if I say "I'll buy a kit" then the kit comes out too expensive, then I'll have to pass even though I want to. I hope that makes sense.

As for a phase 2, at the right price I'd like that too.

As for a phase 3, more of the same.

X8 & X16 phase 3, ditto.

One thing I'd be interested in is the HDL for phase 3. It would then be possible to target larger / more capable FPGA boards for those who are interested, much as the Mega 65 used various FPGA trainer boards with various IO capabilities during their dev process. I can appreciate why one might be hesitant to let that genie out of the bottle.

Another thing I'd be interested in is a non-Cloanto ROM based system. There is the open ROM project that already exists in the repo. That doesn't help on the BASIC side, but I don't care, I'd enjoy just being able to hack on that aspect of it!

Anyway ... if price estimates can be provided on the various tiers, it'll help me answer the questions honestly. It may be that a series of kickstarter-esque that establishes reward levels so that people can "buy in" to the level they want is not a bad idea just to gauge interest (though I realize kickstarter has its own problems).

christopherfujino · Post by **christopherfujino** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:10 am

I think getting an injection of cash into the project now sounds like it would help, I'd buy an x8 today.

Ian Negus · Post by **Ian Negus** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:38 am

I think I'm far more interested in a phase 1 kit than either phase 2 or phase 3. I think there will be ongoing demand for a phase 1 kit, even if phase 2 or 3 were available.

There are reasons for wanting the phase 1 format that go well beyond functionality alone, and that would be the format that tinkerers would get the most out of.

It occurs to me that phase 3 may as well be a Mister FPGA rom with X16 branded custom USB keyboard, which would greatly expand the X16's user base.

ZeroByte · Post by **ZeroByte** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:50 am

I never had any interest in phase 3. A Raspberry Pi running an emulator would give the same experience.

I have mixed feelings about the X8. Honestly in some ways it's better for games than X16. Same display modes. Less VRAM but a portable WI Dow means you could work with less VRAM. In the end though, I feel like this would fracture the development community ivy too much.

The strongest feature of the X16 is your reach, having over 1m subs. This means the system has a real chance to get a real, vibrant ecosystem going. I just don't think there's enough of an audience to feed both systems.

Me, I'm happy to pay the extra to have you or Kevin assemble mine, and will purchase a phase 1 system the very day it's available.