Commander X16

2 hours ago, Cyber said:

I want to share another solution.



Yes, it does not have VGA (so you need converter), it is not 4:3 (so you will have black bars), and it is not my preference, but I know that some people might like such solution.

 

I have one of those. It's a different brand, but it's the same monitor. Mine looks fantastic, and since it works on USB C/Thunderbolt, it works great with just a single cable. 

 

19 minutes ago, TomXP411 said:

I have one of those. It's a different brand, but it's the same monitor. Mine looks fantastic, and since it works on USB C/Thunderbolt, it works great with just a single cable.

Well, with X16 you'll need a VGA-to-HDMI converter, so it won't be a single cable. But you can hide converter behind X16, if you are ok with that.

The main thing I kinda liked about such monitor is that design might look fine with X16.

Here's a good suggestion for a modern LCD solution:

Arcooda 20" 4:3

 

Yes, the resolution is not a perfect multiple of 640x480, but with the pixel density it has you shouldn't notice too many issues with interpolation unless you keep your face at two inches (5 cm) in front of the monitor, and its native 4:3 aspect ratio means no having to choose between image distortion and letterboxing.  More to the point, it seems to have a built-in scan multiplier, so you won't need to put a Framemeister (or clone or competitor) between your X16 and your monitor.  It even comes with a VGA input!

The only major downside, aside from that imperfect resolution multiple, is that you're going to need to provide your own monitor stand, and it doesn't look VESA compatible right out of the box.

Good advice, @Kalvan!

There are should be many used monitors with resolution of 1600x1200.

I was able to get my hands on used NEC MultiSync LCD2180U 21.3" (1600x1200) TFT S-IPS with DVI and VGA inputs.

I'm not sure if it's a great match for X16, I prefer something smaller in size for X16, but we'll see.

More importand advantage of 1600x1200 is that it's a perfect multiplier of 800x600, which was used in lots of great old games.

Interesting option popped up:

 

I am very interested in using an e-ink display (like an Amazon kindle) on a commander x16. I suspect any such monitor would be HDMI only, so I understand there would have to be a connector to VGA. Does this even make sense? Would the platform have enough muscle to do this? Even on modern platforms there can be some lag with these screens, but I think its intrinsic to the technology.

I never used 8 bit computers back in the day, so I'm completely unfamiliar with BASIC and the constraints of the genre. But I love the idea of distraction free programming that is easy on the eyes (thus the aforementioned e-ink display).

The frame rate on most e-ink displays doesn't usually require the sort of high-bandwidth connection found in such standards as HDMI. There are several SPI and I2C e-ink displays available on the parts market.

I have a stockpile of 4:3 LCD VGA monitors. Anybody who wants one can DM me with their address and all they have to pay is the shipping. I live in NY, so it get a bit pricey to leave the US or ship to the west coast.

On 10/25/2022 at 1:41 AM, Jazzhands said:

I am very interested in using an e-ink display (like an Amazon kindle) on a commander x16.

Here's one color 13.3" E-ink at 800 US$ without taxes. But comes with "Purchase of E Ink Gallery related products requires signing a Non-disclosure agreement (NDA) & Software License (SLA) before shipment." ?

https://shopkits.eink.com/product/atelier-with-13-3˝-acep-display-ac133ut1/

At 11m:20s in this video, a USB connected to a PC e-ink tablet is demonstrated:

https://invidio.xamh.de/watch?v=KdrMjnYAap4&listen=false

 

I found this page the most interesting:

https://essentialscrap.com/eink/

Especially this datasheet at page 94:

https://essentialscrap.com/eink/S1D13521B01_Spec.pdf

So in essence you have to grab the digital screen data from the X16 and then transfer this to the memory of the display controller.

The X16 lacks any digital interface currently, but there are ways around it:

 * Modify the RTL code loaded onto the VERA board and get digital output, at least the pixel clock.

 * Piggy back on the VERA board oscillator (25 MHz) and feed the analog lines to an A/D. The A/D part is present in any LCD with an VGA input. The old screens usually drives the panel with digital LVDS..

 * Make an expansion card that eavesdrop on the bus communication with the VERA passively, and then feed it to a VERA clone replicate the digital video data.

 * Use a VGA-to-DVI adapter and then a FPGA to get from DVI to the actual digital RGB data.

You may want to make sure that a whole screen is grabbed in one sweep to avoid the shutter effect. Which means the memory (DRAM) to store this is needed.

The process is something like:

video source (X16) --> A/D --> memory --> e-ink controller with memory --> giant shift registers at the X and Y sides of the e-ink panel.

If you get the driver PCB from an old VGA-LCD then you can attach an FPGA+memory developer board to the LVDS output and most likely drive the E-ink gate/source (X/Y) shift registers directly.

Another approach is to use a PC with a video grabber and feed the output to an USB ready e-ink display. But this might possibly produce latency that is too high.

 

It all depends on your knowledge, equipment, time, budget etc.

 

On 10/24/2022 at 7:16 PM, neutrino said:

* Modify the RTL code loaded onto the VERA board and get digital output, at least the pixel clock.

That's what I'd do. Maybe take the LSB of each color (one red, green, and blue line) and use them to drive an I2C or SPI connection to the E-ink panel... 

That would still allow you to run a VGA display, just with fewer colors.