Getting data to/from the X16

m00dawg · Post by **m00dawg** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:38 am

I can't remember why but as I recall there were some good reasons for dropping Serial UART from the Vera. I'm trying to remember this from a post on FB (though I no longer use FB so can't go reference it). Anyways! We had an interesting conversation on the Unofficial Discord about getting data to/from the X16. For development, having to constantly remove and insert the SD card might get old. And likewise, transferring files (like maybe tracker files, text files, etc.) to/from another machine could be convenient. This is especially true given SD cards aren't really meant for long-term storage - if you don't power them up every so often, particularly as wear due to writes, the data can be corrupted. This has happened to me a time or two with a Raspberry Pi I only use during Christmas (for a light show, of course!).

So, I'm trying to think aloud about what sort of options might be usable. Of course doing something with the User Port is an option, eventually I'd expect someone is going to implement a serial or even a NIC on an expansion card, then there's IEC Serial. The only serial work I've done is RS232 and I was pondering something like ADTPro where files can be copied over serial with the help of apps on both sides. That, of course, requires RS232 so currently isn't a viable option, though IEC serial presents a potential option, maybe, with using the IEC to Parallel interfaces on PC (I haven't used one in a de...err several years we'll say).

The thought of a Wifi-enabled SD card was tossed around too. I've never used one but that would be an option.

And then the user port might be able to be used for some sort of soft-serial type of solution?

Any other thoughts folks might have? Note, this isn't a dig on the design or lack of serial - this isn't a thread meant to wish for a UART on the X16 or anything. Not trying to be a jerk haha I just didn't want this thread to spiral into a wishlist thread as often happens many times (e.g. whenever someone mentions the word "sound").

I'm just trying to think aloud with the options we have currently and what might be possible or what other folks are thinking about as a potential solve?

m00dawg · Post by **m00dawg** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:42 am

Ooo self reply fail! I forgot to include floppy. Using an IEC2PC cable, one could save files on floppy and copy stuff that way, though that's probably more hassle than pulling the SD card ? But still a thought! And in fact I might opt to use a floppy to store text documents, both as a "for fun" and as a means to experiment around with organizing things by disk instead of by directory since that's one thing I miss in the days before we had massive storage. Keeping track of folders gets unwieldy before you know it. With floppies, you know things were getting out of hand when your storage box started overflowing!

rje · Post by **rje** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:34 am

I’ve got a clever idea for getting data OFF of the X16: use VERA’s sound generator, and encode data as sound/noise.

Or, use VERA to display custom multicolor QR-style data. Take a picture of it and have offboard software decode it.

Its not very practical, but it might be fun. I still aspire to write a paper tape reader for the X16.

dr.diesel · Post by **dr.diesel** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:06 pm

Some kind of wifi card would be great. Then we could develop tools to download content from this site, create BBSs and chat clients. Globally reaching content directly from the X16 would really be fun.

m00dawg · Post by **m00dawg** » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:54 pm

14 hours ago, rje said:

I’ve got a clever idea for getting data OFF of the X16: use VERA’s sound generator, and encode data as sound/noise.

Or, use VERA to display custom multicolor QR-style data. Take a picture of it and have offboard software decode it.

Oh wow that deserves some serious clever points! A bit like a cassette solution (the former). QR codes could work well for things like savegames I would imagine too! Very clever!

38 minutes ago, dr.diesel said:

Some kind of wifi card would be great. Then we could develop tools to download content from this site, create BBSs and chat clients. Globally reaching content directly from the X16 would really be fun.

That was discussed a few times on FB several months ago as I recall. I don't know if those convos are still happening but folks were wanting it. Given Lorin's thread about bus-matching, it may not be the most trivial thing to do. It's certainly currently out of my reach. He posits a solution to use microcontrollers, with caveats. If those caveats aren't show-stoppers, one could use perhaps a Wifi or XBee enabled Arduino as a sort of wireless serial solution. That's not "The Internet" but would enable comms with the help of another computer like a PC or Pi, etc. with serial or even perhaps other things like MQTT.

NICs were available for 8-bit machines and for things like the Arduino, so a real NIC for the X16 I think is surely possible but that's speculation on my part. Having that would allow for solutions like FTP perhaps to get things to/from the machine, yep. As well as telnet BBSing (something I am also excited about). Certainly something I would love to see but yeah I dunno enough to be able to build one ? though I think I could muddle my way through figuring out a serial solution, maybe. Hopefully X16 gains enough interest that someone that knows a thing or two about NICs can consider that project in earnest. I'm sure it would be a popular card.

kelli217 · Post by **kelli217** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:40 am

What about an XA1541 or XS1541 cable, hooked from the IEC port to a PC?

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:22 am

There WILL be the User port available, with an entire VIA Port A and associated handshaking lines. So a slipnet with a parallel port driver on the CX16 side and a USB to parallel port cable connecting to the PC ought to give quite reasonable bandwidth, as in 500+ KB/s half-duplex.

I see those USB/DB25 cables on eBay for $8, free shipping. I bet I could get one made for the block pin header plus a USB female plug for about that in a batch order down in south Shenzhen, once Beijing goes back to tier 4 covid19 control, for those who want to have a USB port in the back of their CX16.

BruceMcF · Post by **BruceMcF** » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:23 am

5 minutes ago, BruceMcF said:

<I wish I could delete this>

TomXP411 · Post by **TomXP411** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:24 am

Here's the thread where we were talking about using an Arduino as an external RS-232 interface

You could easily set this up to communicate with a PC, using the USB port of an Arduino as the interface.

rje · Post by **rje** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:14 pm

On 1/3/2021 at 10:06 AM, dr.diesel said:

Some kind of wifi card would be great. Then we could develop tools to download content from this site, create BBSs and chat clients. Globally reaching content directly from the X16 would really be fun.

Use I2C to talk to a connected Raspberry Pi Zero W... I heard a rumor that the X16 has I2C, but I'm not sure...