New game uploaded: Rogue Forest

rje · Post by **rje** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:49 am

Rogue Forest

This is a work in progress, which means there's lots of missing functionality, the UI is rough, there are unfinished bits, and there's no "win" or "lose" condition, yet.

The map is revealed as you explore. There are two kinds of treasures -- weapons and armor -- and one special treasure: the Amulet of Yendor. The goal of the game *will* be to find the Amulet of Yendor and exit the forest with it.

There are 31 monsters in the forest. They (currently) are not differentiated, except by name.

Movement is via the cursor keys. Trees are impassable. "Bump" a monster to attack it.

There are no special commands, yet.

I will add some sound effects before promoting it to 1.0

Submitter

rje

Submitted

08/24/20

Category

Games

rje · Post by **rje** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:24 pm

To paraphrase enthusiasts via Wikipedia, in order to be "officially" rogue-like, a game ought to be:

1 * a random dungeon

2 * turn-based

3 * hack-and-slash

4 * GOAL-oriented: e.g. retrieve the Amulet of Yendor, and escape/perish with as many game points as possible

5 * "permadeath"

6 * support emergent gameplay via complex rule interactions

7 * have resource management as the key to survival (food, water, potions)

8 * have obscure objects

- newly discovered objects only offer a vague physical description that is randomized between games

- described by color, and only later reveal its True Name via use/experimentation

- purposes and capabilities are unstated

- the identity of magical/enchanted items varies from run to run.

- "Bubbly potion" might heal in one game and poison in another.

I've got items #1, #2, and #3 implemented.

TomXP411 · Post by **TomXP411** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:21 pm

3 hours ago, rje said:

To paraphrase enthusiasts via Wikipedia, in order to be "officially" rogue-like, a game ought to be:

1 * a random dungeon

2 * turn-based

3 * hack-and-slash

4 * GOAL-oriented: e.g. retrieve the Amulet of Yendor, and escape/perish with as many game points as possible

5 * "permadeath"

6 * support emergent gameplay via complex rule interactions

7 * have resource management as the key to survival (food, water, potions)

8 * have obscure objects

- newly discovered objects only offer a vague physical description that is randomized between games

- described by color, and only later reveal its True Name via use/experimentation

- purposes and capabilities are unstated

- the identity of magical/enchanted items varies from run to run.

- "Bubbly potion" might heal in one game and poison in another.

I've got items #1, #2, and #3 implemented.

#6 is interesting, as I never saw that in the original game. Actually, one of the most frustrating aspects of the original Rogue was how opaque it was. There was no character sheet, so you didn't even know what various equipment was doing when you equipped something.

#8... I'm not terribly fond of "you found a green potion." Since you can run through half of the game and not see a green potion again, it's incredibly wasteful to have to consume a potion just to find out what it is. Having said that... I like the way Diablo did it. While potions and scrolls were not obfuscated, gear was. If you picked up a piece of gear, it might be enchanted, but you wouldn't know what the enchantment does until you identified it (with a scroll or talking to Cain back in camp.) My suggestion on "obscure" items would be to obfuscate enchanted equipment, but not potions or scrolls. Also, I'd love for supplies to be much more common, especially healing potions and food. (I starved to death once because I could not find enough food.)

For those who want to play the original Rogue (or at least early versions of it), check out this site, which has a bunch of different versions. IMO, the Amiga port is the best looking, but the console versions (Windows, DOS, CP/M, Linux) are the most like the original Unix versions.

Online Rogue on MyAbandonware

WinRogue https://britzl.github.io/roguearchive/files/winrogue_0_1.zip

The Rogue archive (dozens of different versions) https://britzl.github.io/roguearchive/#rogue

TomXP411 · Post by **TomXP411** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:28 pm

Also, I noticed that monsters can attack the player diagonally... but I couldn't figure out how to attack the monsters diagonally. I don't know if that's intentional, but it would be nice to level the playing field, so monsters and players have the same attack rules. One way might be to use the mouse to select monsters for attacking... which would be especially nice if you have magic or projectile attacks.

Setting aside my suggestions... I think this is a great example of what you can do with BASIC on the Commander. The game flows well, and once the map has been created, movement is very fast and fluid. Great job!

rje · Post by **rje** » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:52 am

Quote

I like the way Diablo did it. While potions and scrolls were not obfuscated, gear was. If you picked up a piece of gear, it might be enchanted, but you wouldn't know what the enchantment does until you identified it

My wife and I both grokked Diablo II, so I think you're right.

Quote

Also, I noticed that monsters can attack the player diagonally... but I couldn't figure out how to attack the monsters diagonally.

I'll have to think about a reasonable way for allowing that for players (unsure)... or else preventing monsters from attacking diagonally (easy). The mouse might indeed be the right solution, in addition to allowing easy ranged targeting as you mentioned...

Ranged attacks are also interesting, because it makes me think of the combat system in early Ultima games (e.g. Ultima III). And THAT makes me wonder if it would be good if the map were expanded, or developed, or ...

Quote

The game flows well, and once the map has been created, movement is very fast and fluid. Great job!

Tom, it was your suggestion *and sample code* for using the other layer that made it all work. Thank you!

...I'm also thinking about PSG sound effects...

rje · Post by **rje** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:30 am

I've updated Rogue Forest.

The source is in a line-less BASIC 2.0, split among several files and with pseudo long variables.

I need just a bit of "flash" and I need to tune the game balance; then it will be 1.0.

https://github.com/bobbyjim/x16-rogue-forest

rje · Post by **rje** » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:42 pm

I updated it yet more, and it's reeeeeeally close to done. I think.

1. There is one thing that is bothering me: the sound. I'm using Dusan's interrupt-driven sound routines. I'm not fully aware of the proper way to handle the PSG.

As a result, if I don't include proper timers in my BASIC code, a SYS to call the sound routine might be made too soon to the previous one, with bad results -- the video goes a little nuts because the previous call is still working.

Suggestions welcome. Maybe I should remove the interrupt logic.

2. ALSO, I think I want to write a little PSG goodness of my own, to play a little fanfare when you find the Amulet of Yendor, and of course when you die. I used the SID with BASIC... uh, 35 years ago... so...

3. ALSO, the "User Experience" suffers from the timers... However, the UX might just generally suffer from some bad decisions. And it has a downright ugly "game over" screen. Advice there would also be welcome.

4. Game balance. The game is highly susceptible to random chance. That's INTENTIONAL. But, the game balance is probably skewed. Although the last several times I played, I found it challenging enough so that I was never dominating the game, I think. Again, suggestions welcome.

5. Features. It is feature-poor on purpose. I omit potions, rings, magic effects, ranged weapons, etc. I omit the inventory. I don't have complex relationships between weapons, armor, and monsters. I think this is OK. Your suggestions are welcome.

desertfish · Post by **desertfish** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:26 am

@rje I tried the game and left a review with some issues I was having with it. They *could* be related to the game balance issue you mention above but it's not entirely clear to me. I wonder if you could help me with them or see if they make any sense at all or that I perhaps just don't "get" the game mechanics yet ?

rje · Post by **rje** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:59 pm

6 hours ago, desertfish said:

@rje I tried the game and left a review with some issues I was having with it. They *could* be related to the game balance issue you mention above but it's not entirely clear to me. I wonder if you could help me with them or see if they make any sense at all or that I perhaps just don't "get" the game mechanics yet ?

Saw that!! Thank you. I made quite a lot of changes in the past two days, so I'd kindly ask for a re-review!

Hopefully it improves the game. But maybe it only rearranges the issues ?

rje · Post by **rje** » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:06 pm

Meh, the sound is really in the way.

I'll disable it, for now.

And yeah, the game can be merciless, even if there are no monsters in the immediate vicinity. Too retro?