It has become such a hassle to access these forums. I can't find anything without poking around endlessly hoping to run across what I'm looking for. As an example, I've just found out that firmware version 48 has been released. My CX16 board was delivered to me with R47. What I've run across is a lot of warnings about following the update instructions EXACTLY or else risking bricking the computer. But I can't find instructions or R48 BIN files to perform this update, especially since I am a novice. It also means I will have to update the emulators and what is the process to do that without destroying the present installations (both Mac and PC versions) that took me MONTHS of studying to finally figure out how to set them up.
I'm not a Commodore 64 user but come from the Apple II world. I suggest that you add a forum that covers and answers novice's issues and questions. Mixing the advanced and novice questions and instructions together has become a mess that's getting worse. I've spent a lot of money to build up a CX16 computer but I'm having a devil of a time trying to learn about it.
Please do something to help us novices understand, update and use this computer. I find it fun until I have to wade through this forum trying to figure something out.
Thank you,
Gerry
Frustrations With These Forums
Re: Frustrations With These Forums
I'm planning to stay on R47 until things are sorted out, because R48 seems a little rushed, or otherwise, not as much care was put into it as the previous releases.
Edit: By that I mean, the R48 release doesn't have the same level of guides and information for it as R47 did. I do see now that the SMC repository contains info on what to do if your SMC has the bad bootloader, but that was only added yesterday.
The other thing is, where is that VERA PSG update? I don't see it in the VERA repository; were the R48 release notes wrong when it said v47.0.2 contains it?
Edit: By that I mean, the R48 release doesn't have the same level of guides and information for it as R47 did. I do see now that the SMC repository contains info on what to do if your SMC has the bad bootloader, but that was only added yesterday.
The other thing is, where is that VERA PSG update? I don't see it in the VERA repository; were the R48 release notes wrong when it said v47.0.2 contains it?
Re: Frustrations With These Forums
There really needs to be a single straightforward page on the main X16 site that just provides comprehensive instructions on how to update, with a single download containing all needed files (and an another copy of the instructions).
There should be no need for anyone to dig through the forum or track down a GitHub repository just to update their firmware. It was one thing during the development period but after selling so many production units it’s just inexcusable.
There should be no need for anyone to dig through the forum or track down a GitHub repository just to update their firmware. It was one thing during the development period but after selling so many production units it’s just inexcusable.
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JimmyDansbo
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:10 pm
- Location: Denmark
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Re: Frustrations With These Forums
Please keep in mind that both this site, documentation and system development is mostly community driven.
I can only agree that it would be great if there was a single point of reference for updates and documentation.
If anyone is able to help, there is plenty of work to do.
Anyone is welcome to open issues or, better yet, pull requests on the various github repositories.
https://github.com/X16Community/x16-rom
https://github.com/X16Community/x16-docs
https://github.com/X16Community/x16-emulator
https://github.com/X16Community/x16-smc
https://github.com/orgs/X16Community/repositories
Everyone is also more than welcome to join the, very active, discord https://discord.gg/WQv9eTUk where you can ask for help or offer any help you feel you can.
I can only agree that it would be great if there was a single point of reference for updates and documentation.
If anyone is able to help, there is plenty of work to do.
Anyone is welcome to open issues or, better yet, pull requests on the various github repositories.
https://github.com/X16Community/x16-rom
https://github.com/X16Community/x16-docs
https://github.com/X16Community/x16-emulator
https://github.com/X16Community/x16-smc
https://github.com/orgs/X16Community/repositories
Everyone is also more than welcome to join the, very active, discord https://discord.gg/WQv9eTUk where you can ask for help or offer any help you feel you can.
Visit my Github repo
or my personal site with CX16/C64/6502 related information.
Feel free to contact me regarding any of my projects or even about meeting up somewhere near Denmark
or my personal site with CX16/C64/6502 related information.
Feel free to contact me regarding any of my projects or even about meeting up somewhere near Denmark
Re: Frustrations With These Forums
I think that everybody agrees upon the need for more and better documentation.
Improvements have been made, and some more are being discussed on the Discord channel. The number of persons doing this in their spare time is low. If you want to give something back to the community, taking part in documenting the system is a great opportunity.
Automation may be a key to improving quality and consistency of the update resources. The x16-rom and x16-smc project already use Github actions for this purpose. But we could probably do more with automation to ensure that update resources and instructions are made available to users.
We also need to update or replace the system upgrade tool. It's starting to fall behind, especially when it comes to updating the SMC firmware. And Sven, who made this tool, hasn't been active in the community lately.
Improvements have been made, and some more are being discussed on the Discord channel. The number of persons doing this in their spare time is low. If you want to give something back to the community, taking part in documenting the system is a great opportunity.
Automation may be a key to improving quality and consistency of the update resources. The x16-rom and x16-smc project already use Github actions for this purpose. But we could probably do more with automation to ensure that update resources and instructions are made available to users.
We also need to update or replace the system upgrade tool. It's starting to fall behind, especially when it comes to updating the SMC firmware. And Sven, who made this tool, hasn't been active in the community lately.
Re: Frustrations With These Forums
Gerry, thanks for taking the time to voice the frustration. It's a fair criticism - not just in terms of the vague coverage of firmware update process, but on asking folks to pay a premium price for a product and (seemingly) not getting much traditional product support (to include a comprehensive manual which, for many, makes a more complete "retro experience").
Regarding the mixture of "advanced" and "beginner" discussions, it's an inevitable clash (as it's subjective on what's advanced). In the 80's, we had monthly magazines to help keep up with the latest - and it's unfortunate that the chaotic progress of "web technologies" has seemingly made replicating that mold quite a challenge. That said, I noticed in the TRS-80 community there is a kind of periodic publication.
For me, I think in January it was a bit of a distraction right at launch time to bring up the 816 again. It has its merits, but the fairly constant feedback then was "when is the spiral bound manual going to be available?" I would have also put a 1-year "design freeze" (including ROM updates), as that emulates the 1980s experience: when a product set sail out into the world, it was generally "stuck" that way for quite a while. But I very much understand why the 816 was discussed once more, and the transparent nature of the development is a net positive (mingled in with moments of chaos).
I'll let others answer about the ROM updates. My experience is you can update the VERA and System ROM, and not worry about the SMC update (the individual updaters are on the original SD in EXPLORE\SYSTEM). But as with any firmware updates: don't bother unless there is some aspect, feature, or software you want to use that is dependent on that update.
For reference, demo walk through of the System ROM updates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FArnhwrJd6Y
A while ago I started "cataloging" some of my X16 projects, and a lot of it I did try to have oriented towards more beginner-level users (as I'm still learning much about the system myself). That info is here:
https://voidstar.blog/best-of-voidstar-x16-content/
While some compare the X16 to a CBM system, that doesn't mean a whole lot to many folks who never experienced the early CBM or Apple days. I also realize that to understand BASLOAD, one still needs to first understand the "basics of BASIC" to fully appreciate what convenience BASLOAD is providing. So some more "Day 1 Usage Videos" might be warranted. For example, explaining why the system doesn't natively read BASIC as text files.
Regarding the mixture of "advanced" and "beginner" discussions, it's an inevitable clash (as it's subjective on what's advanced). In the 80's, we had monthly magazines to help keep up with the latest - and it's unfortunate that the chaotic progress of "web technologies" has seemingly made replicating that mold quite a challenge. That said, I noticed in the TRS-80 community there is a kind of periodic publication.
For me, I think in January it was a bit of a distraction right at launch time to bring up the 816 again. It has its merits, but the fairly constant feedback then was "when is the spiral bound manual going to be available?" I would have also put a 1-year "design freeze" (including ROM updates), as that emulates the 1980s experience: when a product set sail out into the world, it was generally "stuck" that way for quite a while. But I very much understand why the 816 was discussed once more, and the transparent nature of the development is a net positive (mingled in with moments of chaos).
I'll let others answer about the ROM updates. My experience is you can update the VERA and System ROM, and not worry about the SMC update (the individual updaters are on the original SD in EXPLORE\SYSTEM). But as with any firmware updates: don't bother unless there is some aspect, feature, or software you want to use that is dependent on that update.
For reference, demo walk through of the System ROM updates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FArnhwrJd6Y
A while ago I started "cataloging" some of my X16 projects, and a lot of it I did try to have oriented towards more beginner-level users (as I'm still learning much about the system myself). That info is here:
https://voidstar.blog/best-of-voidstar-x16-content/
While some compare the X16 to a CBM system, that doesn't mean a whole lot to many folks who never experienced the early CBM or Apple days. I also realize that to understand BASLOAD, one still needs to first understand the "basics of BASIC" to fully appreciate what convenience BASLOAD is providing. So some more "Day 1 Usage Videos" might be warranted. For example, explaining why the system doesn't natively read BASIC as text files.
Last edited by voidstar on Thu Sep 26, 2024 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Frustrations With These Forums
The forum has been running for a long time and there is a huge range of content from trivial to ultra-important. It kind of reflects the internet - a wide range of info from a wide range of people with a wide range of quality.
That being said, yes the updating information of the X16 (R48) seems to be lacking. Others have commented and clarified some of the info you need and offered help, which is the value of the forum - community.
Your post has generated some discussion and action, so thanks for that contribution. Hopefully by now you've been able to get your system back online. If not there are people here willing to help you further.