Gen-2 / Phase-2 / X16C plans

[Cyber]

Quoted from #gen2 @ Commander X16 Discord

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So, a lot of the Gen-2 is still up in the air. But here's what we have at least settled on, and hopefully this will answer a lot of the questions.

it aims to be a small game console. It is a proprietary design and case. Not Mini-ITX.

That being said, still has keyboard and mouse and can do most anything a Gen-1 can do.

As for video, I hope to include Composite, S-Video, and IMDH video. (HDMI compatible)

since it ships with its own keyboard and mouse, there is no need for the nightmare of trying to get USB working. If you don't like the included options, find another PS/2 compatible keyboard or mouse.

It has a cartridge port on the top. It is going to be identical to "Expansion slot 0" on the ATX board we have now. So technically anything that fits or works in that, will work in the cartridge port of the Gen-2.

That being said, the SD-card is still supported, and you'll be able to run software from that. But any competition based games for use with Twin Galaxies will need to be on cartridge.
We'll probably use some sort of TPM on the cartridge. The goal is not to eliminate piracy, rather to eliminate cheating. There will be other measures in place as well.

Games will be welcome on SD-Card or cartridge. But, we're working a deal with Twin Galaxies and any games that people want to compete with on that platform will be cartridge based.
However, I can see certain types of games might work better from a cartridge if you need more RAM. In fact, Planet X16 may end up being a cartridge only game, just out of necessity.

Wifi will be standard on the Gen-2, but we should eventually have a compatible card to add that function to Gen-1. This will give us access to online chat rooms, downloads, whatever.

Two goals that I would like to reach, but not sure if we will or not, is to convert the Vera and Yamaha chips to a custom ASIC. And have a final price for the console, keyboard, mouse, and manual to be under $200.

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[svenvandevelde]

Will there be a hdmi port?

[BruceRMcF]

svenvandevelde wrote:
> Will there be a hdmi port?

From discussion on the Facebook group, the design team appear to be looking at it -- or at least, having a signal that will work with an HDMI video display without paying the HDMI fee & without having the HDMI symbol anywhere on the device. (As guybrush notes, this is a "IMDH" port).

It seems like the solution would be one of the chips that goes into one of the VGA to HDMI converter cables, though if the chip is on board it might be able to be fed with the digital output of VERA rather than sending it through a DAC and then back through an ADC.

[Guybrush]

Yes and no. There will be an IMDH port (which is much the same).

[kelli217]

svenvandevelde wrote:
> Will there be a hdmi port?

That's what the slot looking thing is on the back, next to the S-Video connector.

[DragWx]

Is "IMDH" something unique to the X16? I can't find anything about it, other than it being "HDMI" spelled backwards. :P

It feels silly that we'd have to jump through so many hoops just for the convenience of "that one port and cable all TVs use for plugging stuff into them", but I suppose that's why I'm not a business mogul. :P

[TomXP411]

IMDH does not exist as a standard. I don't know where it originated, but the MEGA 65 uses the term as a way to get around HDMI licensing fees.

And yes, it feels frustrating to have to pay someone for the right to plug into a modern TV or computer monitor. As all new TVs are required by FCC regulation to have HDMI ports, and virtually all new computer monitors have HDMI inputs. More to the point, older versions of the HDMI standard are freely available.

It's unclear, but the HDMI license seems to apply to "adopters", which may be a way to obfuscate something. Every place I read about licensing seems to be carefully worded to say things like you are paying for their services, not for the right to use the connector and signal protocol.

Some people suspect that you don't actually need a license to generate HDMI compatible signals. Instead, they suggest licensing pays for the logo, the certifications, testing, and administration of the standard - not for the right to include basic HDMI compatibility without a logo or the HDMI trademark.

So the implication is that the MEGA 65 calls it "IMDH" to avoid using HDMI's trademarks.

[orangeman96]

REF: https:/hdmi.org/

An HDMI 'Adopter' agrees to pay $15K/year to leverage the patent, which may be cost prohibitive for so few units.

I would just call it a "19-pin Video Port" and leave it at that (it will be fairly obvious from the form factor of the port which cable from your TV/monitor to connect to it, Googling "19-pin video" will likely provide sufficient clarification for those who need it).

I would also refrain from using the "backward letter" approach to avoid inviting lawyers to participate in the realization of David M.'s dream by making it too obvious.

orangeman96

[BruceRMcF]

orangeman96 wrote:
> REF: https:/hdmi.org/
>
> An HDMI 'Adopter' agrees to pay $15K/year to leverage the patent, which may
> be cost prohibitive for so few units.

If I recall correctly (IIRC), they have mentioned in Facebook discussions that the licensing fee is indeed a substantial issue.

If you are going to be selling a million units per year, then $15,000/yr is less than 2 cents a unit. If you are going to be selling tenS of millionS, it's less than a tenth of a cent per unit.

Now, there are cheap ICs that are basically sold on the understanding that given X input, they deliver Y input, and if you "as an HDMI adaptor" determine that when you use this IC, you have an HDMI system, that is between you and the HDMI patent collective.

But "IMDH" as a thing seems to have been created by the Mega65 project, which faced the exact same financial issue. This is from their chipset reference guide:

> Integrated Marvellous Digital Hookup™ (IMDH™) Digital Video Output The MEGA65 features VGA analog video output and Integrated Marvellous Digital Hookup™ (IMDH™). This is different to existing common digital video standards in several key points:
> 1. We didn’t invent a new connector for it: We instead used the most common digital video connector already in use. So your existing cables should work fine!
> 2. We didn’t make it purposely incompatible with any existing digital video standard. So your existing TVs and monitors should work fine!
> 3. We don’t engage in highway-robbery for other vendors to use the IMDH™ digital video standard, by trying to charge them $10,000 every year, just for the permission to be able to sell a single device. This means that the MEGA65 is cheaper for you!
> 4. The IMDH™ standard does not allow content-protection or other sovereignty eroding flim-flam. If you produced the video, you can do whatever you like with it!

> Connecting to Naughty Proprietary Digital Video Standards

> There are digital video standards that are completely backwards compared with IMDH™. Fortunately because of IMDH™’s open approach to interoperability, these should, in most cases, function with the MEGA65 without difficulty. Simply find a video cable fits the IMDH™ connector on the back of your MEGA65, and connect it to your MEGA65 and a TV, Monitor or Projector that has the same connector.

> However, regrettably, not all manufacturers have submitted their devices for IMDH™ compliance testing with the MEGA65 team. This means that some TVs and Monitors are, unfortunately, not IMDH™ compliant. Thus while most TVs and Monitors will work with the MEGA65, you might find that you need to try a couple to get a satisfactory result. If you do find a monitor that doesn’t work with the MEGA65, please let us know, and also report the problem to the Monitor vendor, recommending that they submit their devices for IMDH™ compliance testing.

[svenvandevelde]

Will the gen2 have 4 extention ports like the gen1?