Crystal set radio stuff?

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Travis Bryant moore
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 5:00 pm

Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by Travis Bryant moore »


When I made a crystal set radio it picked up one station every well. But I think the antenna had to be off the ground by one meter or by the wavelength off the ground. Can anyone verify this? Can anyone verify that a PF53012 can work as a fet based crystal radio set for the mystery crystal set radio? Reflexhttp://techlib.com/electronics/reflex.htm

Mystery http://kearman.com/bentongue/xtalset/19mstry/19mstry.html RegerativeArmstrong Crystal Radio

 

Michael Parson
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by Michael Parson »


With a crystal radio, you want as long as an antenna as you can get.

As far as wavelengths off the ground... US AM radio is 530 kHz to 1700 kHz?  So, wavelengths of ~576 meters to ~176 meters ?

Travis Bryant moore
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by Travis Bryant moore »


Well I do live near the Appalachian mountains. Maybe my body was a 2nd ground. My antenna was around 30ft long. Aldo found this. http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/info/pdf/culter.pdf

neutrino
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by neutrino »


Perhaps try a loopstick antenna instead?

The radio waves consist of electro-magnetic waves. And if the electrical waves are really long then it might be more practical to utilize a loopstick antenna to use the magnetic part instead for better coupling to the wave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_antenna#AM_broadcast_receiving_antennas

300px-Ferrite_antenna.jpg

TomXP411
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by TomXP411 »



On 10/31/2022 at 8:37 AM, neutrino said:




Perhaps try a loopstick antenna instead?



The radio waves consist of electro-magnetic waves. And if the electrical waves are really long then it might be more practical to utilize a loopstick antenna to use the magnetic part instead for better coupling to the wave.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_antenna#AM_broadcast_receiving_antennas



300px-Ferrite_antenna.jpg



Loop antennas or "bar antennas" used on portable AM radios are nowhere near as efficient as long wire antenna. I've been a ham for a bit now, and I can tell you firsthand, that an outdoor dipole at 1/2 the wavelength of the transmitting station does a much better job receiving a signal than a loop or compromise antenna. 


On 10/30/2022 at 11:10 AM, Travis Bryant moore said:




Well I do live near the Appalachian mountains. Maybe my body was a 2nd ground. My antenna was around 30ft long. Aldo found this. http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/info/pdf/culter.pdf



Your body acting as the ground is a super common occurrence when an antenna system is not balanced (ie: has at least as much ground plane as radiator, for verticals, or has an equal length negative pole for horizontals.) 

In the case of crystal radios, where you're trying to pick up AM broadcast or shortwave signals, you usually want a horizontal antenna, and some sort of grounding system. 

As to the mystery radio: I'm unclear what you are trying to do. The "mystery" radio is just a crystal set without a ground. A transistor radio is not a crystal radio, since crystal radios don't use batteries or transistors. If you're asking whether a transistor radio can effectively operate with a long wire, ungrounded antenna system: yes it can. I have done so, to good effect. You never want to transmit with an untuned, ungrounded long wire, but for listening to broadcasts, you can basically just connect any long piece of wire to an AM receiver and go crazy, extending it until you get a clear signal of whatever you're trying to listen to. Personally, I have a wire strung around the sunshade on the deck outside my room... I ran coax out through the wall, then ran the center along the beams. It does a good job of picking up all the local radio stations, although not so much with things like WWV (mostly because I'm surrounded by mountains on 3 sides.) 

 

neutrino
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by neutrino »



On 10/31/2022 at 6:55 PM, TomXP411 said:




Loop antennas or "bar antennas" used on portable AM radios are nowhere near as efficient as long wire antenna.



How many times worse are loopstick antennas vs long wire antenna circa?

 

TomXP411
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by TomXP411 »



On 10/31/2022 at 11:32 AM, neutrino said:




How many times worse are loopstick antennas vs long wire antenna circa?



It's not a simple answer, but within certain limits. a bigger antenna gathers more energy than a smaller antenna. If size wasn't important, AM radio towers would not be hundreds of feet tall. 

Without giving you a layman's class in antenna design, the length of a resonant half-wave dipole at 1MHz is 468 feet. That bar antenna is about 3 inches long. So that little bar antenna is only able to collect 3/468 (or 1/156) as much energy as the half wave antenna. Expressed in dB (the standard for radio), this ends up being something like a -21dB difference. However, I'm guessing that difference is actually more extreme, and the fact that the antenna is not tuned will make it even worse. You're probably talking -30dB or worse, compared to the dipole. I would be unsurprised to see a gain figure of -40 or -50dBi on that antenna.

30dB of gain or attenuation is a huge amount in radio. That's the difference between 1 watt and 1000 watts, or 1 watt and 0.001 watts. For a radio antenna, a 30dB loss is unforgiveable. 

Those ferrite coil antennas are useful for picking up stations that broadcast with hundreds of kilowatts of power from less than 50 miles away, but not for picking up stations hundreds or thousands of miles away. On a good night, I've talked to Australia and over the pole to Europe on 100 watts. That bar antenna won't even hear a 50,000 watt transmitter in the next county. 

 

 

neutrino
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by neutrino »


-30 dB yikes..

Are loop antennas with diameters in the meter range also that bad?

 

TomXP411
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by TomXP411 »



On 10/31/2022 at 1:20 PM, neutrino said:




-30 dB yikes..



Are loop antennas with diameters in the meter range also that bad?



If your antenna is 1 meter across, and the wavelength you're working is 80 meters, you can do the math.

There's a reason antennas are built around quarter-wave segments. Anything smaller than that is going to quickly lose performance. However, a meter wide antenna is certainly going to perform better than one that's 1cm wide. As to how much better... you'd have to go look at the specifications for various commercial loop antennas. (I don't rely on people posting their hobby antennas, since most of them don't seem to provide hard numbers.)

 

Travis Bryant moore
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Crystal set radio stuff?

Post by Travis Bryant moore »


I also found that if I make a Darlinton pair transmitter I can get a lot more power transmitting on AM. This is just from a unit using a 9v battery and a TV antenna on the output. But did I get bigger coupling since I am near a power line. That may have boosted my signal by a lot.

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