(new title): Hard decision, but the answer is pretty clear.

[BruceMcF]

20 minutes ago, SolidState said:

It's amazing how much work went into the X8 now I take another look at it. I don't understand why you wouldn't release it.

Lot's of proof of concept prototype don't get released ... given that it was developed as a proof of concept for the envisioned CX16e, the work that went into it would have stood as good experience before tackling the more ambitious CX16e design.

The reasons to not release this one, or to not release it early, could easily be all of the reasons that have been discussed ... fracturing the CX16 programming ecosystem, cannibalizing the market for the CX16e, the LX8 release framing the later CX16 release and weakening its impact, etc. ... and they may have had some more that we haven't raised.

If the main argument for releasing it in advance of the CX16p crowdfund campaign was to help fund the project, then the better way to both obtain that funding and to ensure the success of the CX16p crowdfund campaign would be to just start crowdfunding the CX16p.

BTW, since FPGA's are well after my time (I checked out at the GAL and EPROM state machine stage), do you remember how much available flashROM is in the X8 project? Is it around the amount in the prior version of the board (128KB)?

[SolidState]

1 hour ago, BruceMcF said:

do you remember how much available flashROM is in the X8 project?

The board uses a 16Mb (2M x 8 ) NOR FLASH

[BruceMcF]

7 minutes ago, SolidState said:

The board uses a 16Mb (2M x ? NOR FLASH

I think there was an 8 that emoji'd. I mean the simulated system ... my first guess would be some of that used for other system requirements, but as I say, FPGA is after my time ...

... if there are up to 128 16KB ROM banks that can be accessed, that could go a long way to relieving the very constrained 64KB system RAM.

[SolidState]

8 minutes ago, BruceMcF said:

FPGA is after my time

Me too ? From what I understand these are volatile devices, so it forgets all the "circuitry" when powered off. The serial FLASH is used to store the firmware/RAM image and it gets pulled into the chip on power up. The VERA board would be the same way and probably has an identical FLASH chip on it.

[a9m]

11 hours ago, SolidState said:

There was a discussion about the X8 files on this thread. It looks like the repos were made private, but I think there are some forks out there (the image was a render I did just now from KiCAD). 

I got through the leaked board design and turns out this thing also has a microcontroller that handles host USB data communication and SPI lines to both the config flash and the FPGA. This is usually done to allow live configuration and config flash writing.

This is basically an FPGA dev board.

Don't get the hopes up there though, I'm pretty sure they are not going to include this or even the wi-fi module just to save the cost.

[picosecond]

8 hours ago, BruceMcF said:

I'm calling it the LX8 to be clever

Stop trying to make LX8 happen.  It's not going to happen.

[picosecond]

9 hours ago, x16tial said:

That isn't what I intended, or should be inferred.  The reference is that there's an answer staring everyone in the face.

I missed the joke until you explained it, but the original title was obviously tongue in cheek.

"Some people are so touchy".

[BruceMcF]

1 hour ago, a9m said:

I got through the leaked board design and turns out this thing also has a microcontroller that handles host USB data communication and SPI lines to both the config flash and the FPGA. This is usually done to allow live configuration and config flash writing.



This is basically an FPGA dev board.



Don't get the hopes up there though, I'm pretty sure they are not going to include this or even the wi-fi module just to save the cost.

It makes sense if it is a development board since they were, well, developing on it ...

... but if they don't include the wifi, I'm back to wanting to expand the USB dev tree to hub plus rs232 serial.

[rje]

I agree that the X8 sounds like a threat to the X16, AND that that's no reason to kill or cripple the X8.

* 12 MHz, USB, and wifi?   Where do I sign up?

It ain't going to have an expansion bus, or a different memory model, or a crippled clock, or anything different than what it is right now.  And that's okay.

---

As for the X16.  I've been coding on the emulator and I like those RAM banks.  I REQUIRE at least 10 RAM banks for Core War (it uses a dynamic playing field taking up 80K RAM).  I WANT to use ALL of those RAM banks for Traveller Trader (yes I could use files, but it already works as one gigantic 380K map so...).   There is at LEAST one good use for those RAM banks, and at least two reasonable uses.

And I "need" every spare byte of VERA RAM, because sprites just take up so much space.

As a Neanderthal, I also do not fully trust flash drives to survive heavy use constantly.  So when I'm running Ultima Retro II on the X8, I will be hearing tiny screams as the flash memory gets read and written to as the game churns through that gigantic map, fully expecting to waking up one morning and having it just be DEAD. 

 

On the other hand, since the X8 is the Raspberry Pi / Game Console version of the X16, that's not a problem.  When I'm playing Cloud Diver Saturn, it's just one file and there's no save game, no complicated map, just a lot of twitch, so that's perfect for the X8.

 

But if I want a machine for running The Seven Pirate Kingdoms of Gold, I'm reaching for the X16.  Although I can't avoid saving state to disk there...

 

I do agree that the Yamaha and SNES and PS/2 aren't my cuppa.  But they ARE David's cuppa.  So.

 

[Fabio]

8 hours ago, BruceMcF said:

I think there was an 8 that emoji'd. I mean the simulated system ... my first guess would be some of that used for other system requirements, but as I say, FPGA is after my time ...



... if there are up to 128 16KB ROM banks that can be accessed, that could go a long way to relieving the very constrained 64KB system RAM.

i was thinking: isn't flash memory much slower when written? can it sustain the 12 Mz frequence ?

the vera fpga has proved to be capable to integrate at least the 65c02 cpu and a usb controller: wouldn't be a less controversial saving to use it to emulate an FM CHip in the X16?