3rd and 4th SNES-Controller on the gen2

[RobinBlood]

Hi,
I already posted this on the Discord, but I think this is the best place to put this:
https://discord.com/channels/5475596260 ... 6820085761

Could you map DAT3 and DAT4 to pins 5 and 6 of the 2nd Controller Port?
They are NC anyway so a normal Controller would use DAT2 on pin 4.

With a simple Adapter, we would be able to use all 4 Controllers/Gamepads/Joysticks without wiring something on the inside.

Hope this is something you can take into consideration.
Best Regards
Robin

[Desert-Fox]

I could be mistaken but I think that question came up during the livestream and David kinda made it sound like they probably would not implement the 3rd and 4th controller as he didn't really see anybody making use of it. I know they are trying to keep the cost down but I don't think a couple of pins is gonna break the bank but I'm not the designer.

[RobinBlood]

Unfortunately, I missed the first few minutes of the stream.
He must have said it in the beginning.
---
As TomXP411 said on Discord: That requires 0 extra parts.

It's just the copper traces on the board that need to lead to these pins.
They are physically in the socket anyway, but not used for anything.

[TomXP411]

Unfortunately, I missed the first few minutes of the stream.
He must have said it in the beginning.
---
As TomXP411 said on Discord: That requires 0 extra parts.

It's just the copper traces on the board that need to lead to these pins.
They are physically in the socket anyway, but not used for anything.

The one thing to note is that if the FPGA is starved for pins, that might not be an option. However, if there are 2 pins free, there's no real downside to this approach, and it gives Texelec another adapter they can sell. =)

[Desert-Fox]

Unfortunately, I missed the first few minutes of the stream.
He must have said it in the beginning.
---
As TomXP411 said on Discord: That requires 0 extra parts.

It's just the copper traces on the board that need to lead to these pins.
They are physically in the socket anyway, but not used for anything.

The one thing to note is that if the FPGA is starved for pins, that might not be an option. However, if there are 2 pins free, there's no real downside to this approach, and it gives Texelec another adapter they can sell. =)

That's true for sure.

[RobinBlood]

So the Western Design 65C22 VIA is entirely on the FPGA?
Does the 65C22 USER PORT IC also be simulated, or removed?

Thinking over this again and going down the rabbit hole,
The SNES had all 7 Pins connected already.

+-----+------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+ | Pin | SNES Function | Commander X16 | Notes | +-----+------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+ | 1 | VCC (+5V) | +5V | Power for controllers | | 2 | Clock | Data Clock | Synchronization | | 3 | Latch | Data Latch | Signals data transfer | | 4 | Data 1 | Serial Data | Main input data line | | 5 | Data 2 (Mouse) | Not Connected (N/C) | Unused on X16 | | 6 | Ground (GND) | Not Connected (N/C) | SNES uses this for GND | | 7 | Not Connected (varies) | Ground (GND) | X16 maps GND here | +-----+------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+

Pin 7 on the SNES controller port is officially labeled as "Not Connected (NC)" in standard controllers. However, some special controllers and peripherals do use this pin for extra functionality.

Multitap (Multiplayer Adapter)
The SNES Multitap (e.g., the Super Multitap by Hudson or the Super Bomberman Multitap) allows up to 6 players to connect.
It uses Pin 7 to handle extra controller data beyond the normal two-controller setup.
Some multitaps use Pin 7 as an additional serial data line.

So the original SNES layout has 3 DataLines per Port handled by the Ricoh 5A22 CPU (based on 65C816) natively. For these and other extra inputs, the Ricoh had additional pins (QFP-64 instead of 40pins)

So actually I would be asking for no extra pins than the gen1 had.
There are already 4 Data-Lines on the gen1 (compared to 6 on the SNES)

I have a lot of ideas for utilizing the 3rd and 4th controller.
For instance, inputting analogue X and Y aches (like the SNES mouse did on Pin 5) for a HOTAS WARTHOG™ Flight Stick (DPad on Thumb-Cap)
Bomberman like games with at least 4 Players etc.

[RobinBlood]

The C64 also had Two Analog Inputs next to the 4 directions and the button.

The 8-Bit Guy - How Controllers work

POT-X and POT-Y were used for the analogue C64-Paddles https://www.c64-wiki.de/wiki/Paddles;
or on some joysticks as Firebutton 2, and 3; https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=74839
or on the Mouse 1351 as X and Y-Analog-Inputs https://www.c64-wiki.de/wiki/Maus
or left and right Mouse Buttons on the 1350 https://www.c64-wiki.de/wiki/Mouse_1350

These connected to the SID-Chip:


So in theory, it would have been no problem to build an analogue joystick on the C64 with 5 digital buttons,
or a digital C64 joystick/gamepad/controller with 511 !! Buttons (theoretical 2x255 from the 8bit POTx and POTy lines + 1 FireButton)
Theoretically, because it's quite hard to create the voltage on the analogue input exactly, they jump a bit (as you can see in Davids Video)